What Americans think of Europeans
I wrote a hugely popular post on what Europeans think of each other, and we all know what Europeans think of Americans (that we’re fat and stupid – well, it’s a bit more complicated than that; I’ll delve into that in another post). In this post, I’ll write my experiences with my fellow Americans think about Europeans. Keep in mind, though, that the diversity of knowledge and opinion in the US is far greater than just about anywhere else in the world, so I’m not going to capture everyone’s sentiment.
At the outset, it’s important to understand this about Americans:
- a lot of Americans live by the “if you can’t say anything nice about (something), then don’t say anything at all” adage. So most Americans, who generally have a vague positive feeling about Europe, will only say vaguely positive things about Europe, if anything at all. (“I hear it’s nice over there.”)
- Most Americans are profoundly ignorant of geography and don’t give much thought beyond their immediate frame of reference. Before you think that means Americans are chauvinist, keep in mind they don’t give a shit about the next state over, or even next city, much less another country. Americans may be brilliant when it comes to technology, innovation and business, but they fail when it comes to geography. They are simply not interested. (This is why, I think, America assimilates foreigners better than Europe. They don’t know where other people come from, and soon forget; their foreignness ceases to be a liability, unlike Europeans who always remember that China had the Tiananmen Square massacre, a Serb killed Archduke Ferdinand and Serbia gave the world Slobodan Milosevic, etc.)
- the last few years have seen politically-active Americans attuned to world affairs much more than they have traditionally been, because of the wars, antagonism towards US foreign policy, propaganda by the Bush administration, etc. Growing up, I can tell you that no one ever cared what was going on outside our borders, other than to think the Soviet Union was a miserable shithole, and everywhere else was OK (but not as great as the USA).
That said, let me get down to the specifics, country by country. Remember that I’ll only include those that the average American has heard of and actually knows is in Europe (you ask the average American where Albania is, and you might be surprised at the variety of answers; I expect fully a third would say “Antarctica”). I’m being a little harsh on my fellow Americans, but, as an American, this is something we tend to do:
- UK – This is the only European country (and, like the Brits, Americans don’t always consider it part of Europe, even though it clearly is) that Americans tend to have largely uncritical views of, regardless of whether they’re at the political right or left (actually, let me add the neighboring Irish to that list). Brits are considered “polite”, “dignified” and “cultured” by virtue of their speech, which Americans, through decades of inculcation through movies and television, have come to ascribe values to. The only negative is of those with posh, elite accents to be thought of as devious or cunning; many Hollywood thrillers aimed at a middle-class audience have some greedy British villain who’s just too smart for his own good (stupidity is equated with a lack of guile, which middle-class Americans admire). I don’t think most Americans, until recently, have known that there is a substantial, vociferously anti-American contingent in the UK; many on the far left think it’s all directed at Bush and his policies (it isn’t nearly that temporal nor partisan), so they tend to think of the Brits as being “on our side”.
There is a perception, poked fun of in popular media, that Brits have bad teeth, but it’s one of those stereotypes that is not really taken all that seriously, like that Poles are stupid or that Italians don’t bathe.
Among younger people, the UK is synonymous with London, where it’s imagined everything is cool, edgy, rock. For many young women, having a English rocker boyfriend has substantial cachet.
Other than that, I think most Americans are completely oblivious to the stereotypes that the English and Scots endure by Europeans (that they’re cheap, two-faced, etc.) - France – Mixed feelings, mixed feelings. Most Americans have known that the French enjoy criticizing the US and Americans; they know that Parisians are rude the minute you say something in English. But they still go there. Except for the minority of hard-core right-wing Americans who choose travel destinations on principle alone (they usually stay home), most Americans want to visit Paris.
But, the average American is going to use the following word when describing the French: “snob.” And by most accounts it’s probably the most offensive word you can use in America, where “he’s a regular guy” is one of the highest compliments you can pay to someone.
On the positive side, “cultured”, “sophisticated” and “thin” betray a certain jealousy that even the most hardened anti-French have towards this country, our oldest ally in the world. - Italy – American perceptions of Italians are shaped by Italian-Americans (who are mostly from Sicily, and are quite different from most contemporary Italians), the food, and, of course, Hollywood. Italians are considered laid-back, stylish, loud (in a good way; remember, we Americans are loud), and know good food. Think about it – if there ever were a universally-liked cuisine, it would be Italian. Italian women are considered very sexy – think Sophia Loren and Monica Bellucci. The men, too, are loved by American women (and gay men). The only negative stereotypes are that they’re mafiosos, and don’t bathe – very old stereotypes that made them the butt of jokes about 100 years ago. No one takes these sorts of jokes seriously anymore.
- Germany – Unlike the Brits and other Europeans, Americans don’t have anything against the Germans. This is probably due to the fact that a plurality of white Americans have Deutsch blood coursing through their veins, and because Americans have fantastically short memories. Of course, if an American hates any particular German, he’s going to call him a Nazi, but Americans don’t think of them as the humorless, stiff, nazionalsocialistischer automatons that your average Brit, French or Czech does. Beyond that, the only perception of Germany is beer, sausage, sauerkraut and Oktoberfest. And maybe lederhosen.
- Spain – I’m sorry to say this, considering Spaniards’ enormous sensitivity around it, but most Americans are going to conflate the Spanish with Mexicans. They’re going to assume Spain is poor, the people eat tacos and burritos, and they pay with worthless pesos. They’re going to assume Madrid is a suburb of Mexico City, and Barcelona is an island near Cancun. If they have fantastic memory, they might remember the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria, those famous Mexican ships sailed by that Mexican explorer, Hernan Cortes.
- Scandinavia – I’m throwing the Netherlands in here, too, because for whatever reason, most Americans think “Dutch” applies to Denmark, and that they speak Danish in Holland. (I tell people although they’re all tall blondes that speak Germanic languages, Dutch bikes are routinely stolen while Danish ones aren’t.) Scandinavia is considered advanced technologically and blonde, blonde, blonde, but beyond that, there’s no reason to ever visit any of those countries. And most Americans might think Scandinavia is a country, and they speak a language called Slavic.
- Ireland – Considering a happy, beautiful, green country full of shamrock-covered meadows and cheery little leprechauns. Maybe not too far from the truth, actually. The negative stereotype is that they’re drunks, but in America, that’s not really an insult anymore. Most Americans would be floored if they knew the per capita GDP of Ireland was higher than that of the US, and that Ireland has only 4.6 million people. Most Americans think it’s a huge, poor country.
- Portugal – Part of Puerto Rico.
- Greece – Based on the popularity of the 2002 film, My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Greece is probably considered a quaint, colorful country full of charmingly nationalistic bumpkins. But the reality is that the country doesn’t cross the minds of most Americans whatsoever.
- Countries completely ignored except by some ethnic descendants – Poland, Czechoslovakia (that’s right – it’s still one country), Yugoslavia (v.s.), Hungary (most Americans will think you’re joking if you tell them this is the name of a country; they might even believe you if you tell them it’s near Thirstary), and anything eastward, until you hit Russia.
- Russia – Large, poor, cold, angry, gray. Again, not too far from the truth. Russia includes places like Moscow, Ukraine, all the -stans (sometimes even Paki- and Afghani-) and just about any other country with a majority white people that speak a language that’s not English that they’ve never heard of (Moldova, Georgia, Armenia, etc). Like the other former Iron Curtain countries, considered cold, depressing, nothing to see. They wouldn’t believe that St Petersburg is as beautiful as it is, as are Prague, Budapest, Krakow, etc.
These have been my perception of what the average insular white American knows and thinks. Here are some variants for different subgroups based on my conversations:
- African-Americans (black) – Love France. Neutral on the rest of western Europe. Have absolutely no interest in, knowledge of, or desire to visit Eastern or Northern Europe.
- Latinos – Love Spain. Positive on France and Italy. Have absolutely no interest in, knowledge of or desire to visit any other European country.
- Asians – Indians adore Britain. The Vietnamese adore France. Filipinos adore Spain. (Are we beginning to see a pattern here?) Other Asians are not particularly interested in Europe (unless they’re very “Americanized”).
- Gays – Europe is London, Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin and Ibiza. The Mediterranean is hot. So is Eastern Europe, paradoxically (so much Eastern European gay porn comes Stateside). Very, very confused on which city goes where; a widespread perception that London, Paris, and Prague are an hour-long train ride from each other.
- Lesbians – The only lesbians I know have gone to Amsterdam and loved it. Too small a sample size for me to form an impression.
- Hipsters – Love London, Paris, and slightly more “edgy” capitals like Copenhagen, Prague, Helsinki and Barcelona. They tend to be relatively well-off and educated, so they might buck a lot of the stereotypes I’ve laid out here.
This will, no doubt, make more than a few Europeans fume in indignation, or nod smugly that Americans really are as ignorant as they’ve thought. Remember that there is a small but not insignificant (maybe 5-10%?) number of Americans who are widely travelled and know a ton about Europe and its geography, national temperaments and culture. They tend to live in the “urban archipelago”, esp in coastal cities like New York or San Francisco.
Update: If you want to see it quantified, here are Americans’ sentiments towards other countries (not just European). Unsurprisingly, the current bugaboos harped on about in the media are at the bottom of the list.
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Europeans generally think they are more educated than Americans. Most point out with a smirk that most Americans know little about Europe. The funny thing is, it is the same the other way round. Most Europeans have not clue about America, beyond Hollywood movies. Ask them where Indiana is located and the likelihood is about the same to get a correct answer as an American locating Austria. Same for history. Ask any European what the Alamo is. Unless by chance they saw the 2004 movie, they will have no clue. When I lived in DC I had several European visitors who wanted to take a WEEKEND drive to Florida to the Beach or the Grand Canyon. Boy did everybody think they were ‘cute’ (in a stupid way). It’s all about focus on important things to yourself. When you live in the UK or France you know more about America than Americans know about you because, America has more impact on the UK and France than the other way round. Ask folks from the UK and France who the current head of state is in Bulgaria (or even what the head of state is called in Bulgaria…President, Prime Minister, Chancellor…?) and you will get no response. So Americans are not more stupid or less educated, it’s just that America is big and important, so that’s where the focus is. On the other hand, Bulgaria does not pull any weight, so why would anybody care, except Bulgarians?! There you have it, self-hating Americans and snobby Europeans, you can throw your believes over board, were are all the same: knowledgeable about what is important to us, and ignorant about the rest.
Comment by Martin Burkard — May 6, 2011 @ 11:17 am
I think everyone is a little too sensitive to what other countries or regions think about our little plots of the planet. I would like to say that other countries are not the only targets of sterotypical inaccurate points of view… If you are bothered by what you think the US thinks of your country take solace in the knowledge that the different regions of the US undergo the same blanket judgements from each other. I’m Southern… Where did your mind just go? Stupid, backwoods, inbred hick? Don’t worry about it, we’re used to it but that is a stereotype that doesn’t have much truth to it either. Instead of an argument, I have a question… Why do we all care so much? We are individuals and we know what we are or are not. Do I get angry too sometimes? Sure, of course. Have I changed even one persons perception? Not that I’m aware of. My point is that this is nothing but hurtful & pointless! I wish we would all just get over this and say “you know what? I don’t have a problem with you”… and if you have the opportunity to share something about your culture with someone who is “ignorant” of it- do it! Stop pointing our fingers and saying “look at them, they’re so (stupid, geographically challenged, snobby, poor, dirty- Whatever!)
Comment by Dana — May 14, 2011 @ 7:01 pm
I cant stand self hating Americans but it seems like that is whats cool right now, Good article.
Comment by cooper — May 22, 2011 @ 12:52 am
I could really care less about this article, but I did find it a little disrespectful toward america.
Comment by A K — May 25, 2011 @ 7:22 pm
No, Europeans. You do not understand America, we can agree on that.
This argument that we should know your nations because they are sovereign, but you belie no ignorance when you don’t know our state geography is a ridiculous proposal. California is the 5th biggest economy in the world and if it went completely underr -vs just overbudget as usual- we will take people down with us, not so much for us if Belgium bottoms out.
We have medium sized counties bigger than Iceland. More people live in New York City than all of Sweden. And don’t talk to me about Russia- our country is populated top to bottom side to side, full of life and people, much of Russia is empty.
You can’t even get your head around the drama and size of our country, never could. A Dutch exchange student went to the Hopi reservation in Arizona with me on a legal project. She kept asking what were the dark shapes moving across the desert plain below the mesa; we realized she was talking about the shadows of clouds. There is no such space in Northern Europe was her explanation, she had never had the perspective before.
We are a place of vast spaces and vast diversity, you are simply not central for us. We are sorry. Kind of.
Also, unlike N European countries, we have no guarentee of housing, medical care or education and are in constant competition with foreigners for work (also unlike the xenophobic and anti-immigrant N European countries who take amazing care of their people to the point that they don’t have any empathy for working class Americans, but would let foreigners even refugees starve and die before tolerating them illegally entering the country).
Finally, this is a place of unsurpassed wealth historically. As such it attracted the most heinous, unethical, fascist neo-liberals (mostly from Europe) in history. And forces to destroy the commons, undermine the education of the populace and destory healthy media and free speech have been waging war on us for decades. So were under a little pressure; sort of like we’ve got a shotgun blast to the heart and your bitching because we didn’t notice your new dress.
Yes, guilty as charged,we tend to be occupied by these basics and our own extremely large, diverse and dynamic culturally warring society to pay a terrible lot of attention to Europe.
Honestly, I find a lot of your comments are little stalker-ish; if we never notice you, pay no attention to you and treat you poorly when we see each other, then stop using our products, listening to our music, watching our movies, coming here in fucking droves and fixating on us as the source of all negative world events. England colonized half the world, we are all paying for the fallout. Fuck off. It’s like we got out of an abusive relationship by getting the Hell out of Europe (most Americans are descended of those fleeing horrible conditions in Europe) and your that wife-beater guy that can’t stand that we moved on with our life. Get over it. We Dont’ Think You Much (except when threads like this come up)- agreed & justified I’d say.
Comment by EC — May 28, 2011 @ 1:08 pm
As an American I can truthfully say that this paper is disrespectful and completely false in every possible way. As far as Americans not caring or respecting other countries, Americans are very sensitive to other countries. Example: Japan with the earthquake. We have thousands of missionaries in poor countries helping and making a difference. This entire paper is just stereotyping, maybe some of those low class rednecks think like that, but most civilized americans don’t. Get your head out of your ass.
Comment by Carleine Franst — June 6, 2011 @ 5:58 pm
My name is Andrei, I am Romanian and live in Romania in southeastern Europe and I’m 22 years old. I think it’s completely useless to say Americans are this, Italians are that etc., there is no country on this planet that “has exclusive rights” to any quality or defect. What I can say is that it’s a shame when people of any nationality do not pay attention to the world around them. It gives you a great deal of perspective. The only people I dislike, cannot be categorised by country, age, sex etc. that’s right, I’m talking about ignorant people.
P.S. I know most of the American states and where those states are. I’m good at geography and that’s because geography is a compulsory and independent subject in school, from 5th grade to 12th grade approximately. Learn before you hate!
Comment by Andrei — June 10, 2011 @ 6:35 am
I am Richard who was stationed in the 76th Army Band in Orleans, France. During my year and a half there, I learned French well enough to carry on basic conversations with them. While there will always be those of all countries who are not pleasant to be around, my being a man that always like to have pleasant conversations wherever I may be, led me to finding a vast number of Europeans I enjoyed being with very much. Realizing I had become a European in my thinking, I did not want to return to the states. I currently have a couple of things in the fire now that I hope will result in my being able to spend a couple of months in Europe, returning to many of the places I enjoyed so much, as well as seeing everything I can that I did not see while there. I find Europeans far more like the people we are not, in not being as arrogant and obnoxious as some Americans can be and I’ll definitely be dressing far better, as opposed to the sloppy way many Americans now choose to dress.
Comment by Richard Keenam — July 25, 2011 @ 10:07 pm
Gee I guess most foreigners would consider me a very atypical American. I love geography and other cultures.And yes, I know that Spain is not part of Central or South America geographiclly or culturally. LOL Sorry to bust your strereotypes but if I met someone who thought that Madrid was a suburb of San Juan Puerto Rico I and all my friends who are American would consider that person an wicked moron or wicked retahhdid ( please excuse my Bostonian expressions.) deserving to be labeled a simpleton.
Yes it is true that many Americans lack basic geographic knowlege however some of the remarks the author made are very inaccurate according to my experience.
First of all ,most Americans are of European heritage and they identify with their European roots. Irish Americans are usually well read in Irish history were very much into the struggles of the IRA and know that Ireland is no longer a poor nation and alot have traveled to Ireland. Most Italian Americans are proud of their Italian heritage have feasts days for their patron Saints, travel to Italy and even have jovial arguments with other fellow Americano Pisans which is better Naples, Sicily or Milano.German Americans have there private clubs and have their annual Octoberfests. Greek Americans have their festivals ,usually go to Greece regularly and very up on issues such as Macedonia ect
America is a large country though with a national culture has alot of distinct subcultures.It is fair to say that parts of America are smarter or more intellectually developed then others. I am not trying to be a provencial supremist but I would put my home city of Boston MA right up there as one of the top 2 or 3 cities in the world if not the top when it comes to Intellect. Anyone who is familiar with Boston would know that we at or near the very top globally when it comes Universities, Hospitals and Medical Facilities.
There certainly is some truth to the dumb American perceptions that our media loves to portray with trash shows such Jerry Springer that our seen all over the world. Those shows are popular partly because human beings have always desire to laugh at village idiots.So our Village Idiots are shown all over the world. I am sure that if there were TV shows that showed Eurotrash idiots and Dumb Aussies and Brits globally your perception as being Intellectual Superior to the Yanks would change. I saw a TV show that interviewed Americans and asked them basic questions such as where is Russia on the map and they could not answer. Of course this sample was taken from the urban poor and hillbillies not Harvard Yard or Wall St.
I would strongly suggest that you folks with a distorted view of America come for a vist. Hurry cause the dollar is still cheap relitive to the Euro
Comment by Bostonian — July 28, 2011 @ 7:39 pm
I particularly enjoyed the previous article by this author, which concerned European’s attitudes toward one one another.
As Americans, we to realize the following…
–All countries have historical events which should cause them shame. Only Americans obsess over it.
— If we visited another country, and spouted off complaints, it would be considered extremely rude. However, it’s considered fair game to bloviate about America’s perceived shortcomings. Would you travel in France and berate your hosts for collaborating with the Germans?
— Americans are criticized for “patriotism”, but no one would dare criticize other country’s sense of pride. I.e., would you make fun of Spaniard’s or the Irish for loving their country?
— An American who is disdainful toward his own country, and unappreciative about what it has given him, is often thought of as “edgy.” However, residents of other countries who bad-mouth their own nation would not be so highly regarded. Can you imagine a German bad-mouthing his own country, and being thought of admiringly? Lol, I’ve been to Japan many times, and don’t recall a single time that someone I chatted with brought up any of their war crimes!
— The bottom line is that the media likes to play up our own feelings of inadequacy, and enjoys making us feel that we are the object of ridicule In other countries. For work, I traveled to 34 countries (sometimes 10 or 20 times). I never had a single incident of disrespect toward me. Only once did I overhear a disparaging remark about our president at the time, and it was in response to a smug fellow American who was trying to show-off by dissing his own country. Then, of course, he had some polite agreement by the German he was speaking to.
–Europeans travel to other nations because they may live a few hours from several borders. We do not enjoy the same geographic proximity. Most Americans can’t afford to travel to Europe, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t like to. I took my family of five to Europe for three weeks, and it cost $22,000.
— Bottom line, We have a proud history which is certainly no WORSE than any other country’s. We should stop bad-mouthing ourselves, because no one else does. it’s OKAY for us to be patriotic–everyone else in the world is, And do we REALLY need to care so much about everyone thinks of us, especially since they evidently don’t like most of their own neighbors any way.
Comment by Laura johnson — July 28, 2011 @ 11:19 pm
Clearly, you are too damn stupid to know anything about real Americans!
Comment by Jesse — July 29, 2011 @ 11:32 am
Oh my god, Russia for American people this is ????????, ??????? ? ?????????…I knew…
Comment by Vlad — August 6, 2011 @ 7:48 am
I think you are the same author of the article: 10 things about the Netherlands, where I just left a lovely and supportive comment (I thought it was hilarious c; ), but I want to take back what I left there.
I said that I thought that we, the Dutch people, were more rude than Americans, but i take it back!
I’ve only read about 10 comments here, and I see people bashing eachothers heads in about something the other one has said. I mean: Wow! Talk about being rude!!
i just wanted to let you lovely people know, we (or I, let’s keep this personal instaed of general) understand that this is a VERY GENERAL view. Everybody is different with different interests and different knowledges etc etc.
(but it’s always fun seeing people being passionate about something isn’t it?) c;
Comment by GirlfromBrabantNL — August 7, 2011 @ 7:08 am
Dont forget that its us Europeans who have sort of ‘made’ America what it is 🙂
Comment by Robert — August 9, 2011 @ 4:06 am
I find some truth in what you’re saying (as far as the stereotypes go), but I refuse to believe that the majority of Americans are so ignorant when it comes to geography. Please. My 8 year old son would not make most of the mistakes you and other commenting people say the majority of Americans make.
Comment by Elizabeth — August 25, 2011 @ 6:08 am
Ime an english man whos very well travelled including several visits to the U.S & Mexico. First I would like to say that I have always found the average american to be friendly and helpful, and good fun. In the U.K. we have something called the national curiculum, which changes from one generation to the other but basically sets out what the children will learn in school, when I was young geography was one of the core subjects along with maths, english etc. It was an interesting subject though not one which would particularly help your career, I suspect the American education system may be geared to more practicle ends. However it was a subject I excelled in and I can help de bunk a few myths about Europe.
The UK.
Is not full full of warm beer, bad teeth and cold weather, most men (and women) prefer a cold beer, (larger) to the traditional real ale, the tooth problem of wartime brits on bad rations is a thing of the past as we all jumped on the cosmetic dentistry bandwagon years ago. The difference between the climate in northern scotland & southern england is quite marked, we are a long thin Isle.
France
though only 25 miles from southern England is culturally further removed from us than the United States.
Nothing in France bears any resemblance to the U.K. including architecture, lansdcape or language, this is probably at the root of the age old phsycological warfare between the two old powers.
South West Europe,
Another two old world powers Portugal & Spain. I have a house in Portugal and have visited Spain many times, if anyone that thinks Europe ( is a cold place that rains all the time) they would be astounded by these two, both have blistering summers with high temperatures for months on end and near permanent blue sky. The temperatures in the short winters in the Portuguese Algarve rarely dip below 60 degrees. In geographic terms North Africa is a stones throw from the south of these countries. Both Spain and Portugal were major players in the discovery and colonization of the new world as well as much of the old. I found the earlier post from the indignant Spanish lady that said that Portugal looks up to Spain to be delusional, its a known fact that just like the English and French, the Portuguese & Spanish dont get on at all well.
Germany
A central European economic powerhouse, often the butt of jokes for their automaton ways, and lack of humour, there is little trust in other countries for them, and especially amongst the English conservatives who think that Germany along with their French pals are trying to be the top dogs again via the back door.
Italy
No one hates the Italians too much, they are too much fun for that, and every European country has its Italian resteraunts with its cheerful waiters. Economically & politically its a mess, and seen as a prime holiday destination for rich sun starved northern europeans wanting a couple of weeks in the Med.
Greece
Another holiday in the Med spot and in a bigger crisis than the other southern european eurozone countries. Affectionately seen as the birthplace of civilisation and art, as is Italy.
Eastern Europe including Russia.
The general public in are sceptical as to whether the eastern block countries are truly democratic yet, especially Russia, there are huge improvements and Rome wasnt built in a day. As a previouse post pointed out there are beautiful destinations, its not all grey concrete appartment blocks.
Scandinavia
Generally admired for their independence and calmness, along with their classic viking looks, very self contained, they seem to have no enemies.
These are all massive generalisations and I hope they give someone an insight into how Europe is placed no matter how small. In a nutshell more Europeans should visit the U.S. and vice versa its the best way for us to understand each other, finally most U.S. T.V programmes received in Europe are things like CSI and Criminal Intent etc. These programmes portray America as a violent gun culture which is not too condusive to promoting tourism. I think as a friend, I would advise the media and citizens to be mindfull about this. I know as a traveler that there is much more to America.
Comment by alan — August 30, 2011 @ 8:15 am
no matter how many times you’ll protest or find excuses for your stupidity and ignorance, you, Americans, can’t change the fact that most of you are still the dumbest, ignorant people on this planet.
Also, someone said ‘America is safe’?
Don’t make me laugh. America is frequently exposed to violence (especially due to black people), so don’t give me this crap about America being a safe place.
And , yes, I’m racist to mexicans, black people, gypsies, indians and a bunch of other southwestern Asian and Middle East shit, so don’t give me crap about world peace or equality between races, cause there isn’t such a thing. Not after all those stupid wars between Arabs and Americans.
Talking about close minded huh?
Thank goodness I live in Europe.
DC: Man, thanks for doing the work for me. Europeans, I feel sorry for you.
Comment by XR — September 21, 2011 @ 6:35 am
Spain IS poor you idiot. Obviously written by some brown nosing American who thinks Europe is the greatest place on Earth.
Spain is not only poor it is one of the poorest countries in Europe, part of the PIGS countries, which includes GREECE ffs!
Comment by Jacques — October 11, 2011 @ 1:17 pm
The only good country in Europe right now is Switzerland and that’s because they are not in the EU, and should thank their lucky stars some clown in Brussels isn’t dictating their laws.
Comment by Jacques — October 11, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
I’m a london girl born and bred and have never been to American but I can name all of your states thank you very much. I don’t think Americans are at all stupid but I think the whole war on terror thing has lost you a lot of sympathy in the UK, especially london. As someone mentioned before do you guys even know about what happened in london? The 7/7 bombings? And to those that are being so rude about Europe, grow up please. We’re a lot more open-minded and liberal then you are and maybe you should take a leaf from our book and not be so quick to anger and going on about how we’re ‘cowards’. We’re all just people trying to get along and I would never call americans stupid because that in itself is blatently stupid! And lastly to that guy being racist, you’re a fucking insect and if you came down to london with that attitude you’d be in shit mate.
Comment by Elena — November 8, 2011 @ 9:49 pm
To who ever is still reading, or who may revise their opinions…. let me give you my opinion on this subject .
Firstly… we are all english! Im sorry, we all hate each other (a remarkably English trait) So lets just forget the geographic nonsense. You come from us… we gave you liberty and democracy and we sacrificed a thousands years to gain it…..so spare me the home of democracy *******s if you please!
Coca cola, dr pepper and bill gates all come from english heritage… not to mention the computer was invented by the british so lets forget your industry and believe me… it is english oriented.
People (Americans) go on about the revolution …. but why>? They defeated less than 1/4 of the british expeditionary force … listen i do not care for who has the biggest balls nonsense … but seriously, the British forces were in china, africa and india, the smallest contingent were in america…. the land we thought was the least trouble.
The fact is the british royal family have their hands in every pie…. look at all the magnates and oil barons… some where along the lines it’s been british backing …. simply put the english own it all and the Americans are simply extensions of European banking clans likes the rothchilds***(spelling) … every war has been planned and america has been needed
As for Americans being secluded … well, they are ignorant, sure. Why fight it? Ive been to new york and florida… they are lovely people… compared to the people of london they are as happy as could be, but simply put this a nation you would not trust looking after itself too!
The people of europe, especially England, are about at least 4 hundred years more socialised then northern america! And i means that … England is now 40+ atheist …. thats the biggest group when you take into consideration muslims, agnostics, jews and the rest.
That is the social progress of hundreds f years worth of science, social and political reform… america can only begin to scratch the surface of this history. Its people do not know the meaning of struggle – england has been conquered numerous of times … but we developed into the strongest nation in the history of the world… never again would we be conquered! But science developed and truth prevailed…. religion was a tool to control the fools of Europe… America is simply too young to understand it yet, but soon you will join the civilised and on that day we will all be doomed….. because then the west will probably attack the east. Good bye east, as an american special marine once said to me , ‘”don’t go to war the English”
Comment by Anon — December 13, 2011 @ 11:23 pm
I’m English (British, whatever) and think all countries have their positives and negatives. There are things about my own country I don’t like but there are things I do. Even though I was born in the UK, I don’t identify narrowly by calling myself only “English” or “British”, I prefer to identify with Europe as I think all of Europe shares a lot in common even though there are often distinct differences between one country, one region and another. I also happen to like the US, Canada etc but equally I am critical of aspects (especially of the US).
Comment by Richard Lewis Williams — December 20, 2011 @ 12:52 pm
Fucking bullshit and Barcelona is the real capital of Spain …
Comment by Karlito — January 11, 2012 @ 9:46 am
Read both the European view & american view of europe to my husband tonight…very funny.
Comment by theresa — January 22, 2012 @ 5:44 pm
Im from Slovakia…there is a mention about us (unfortunatelly not in positive sence), but I dont see any mention about Switzerland or our neighbouring Austria… What is the opinion on those countries? Did you forget to mention them because they fits into the group of “Countries compeletely ignored” too?
DailyCandor: Yes, maybe. Depends on the person. If they’re ignorant of all but the biggest countries in Europe, then CH, AT and SK will not register. Otherwise, the associations can be:
Switzerland: Heidi, Alps, cuckoo clocks
Austria: Germany
Slovakia: Czech Republic’s little brother
Comment by Peter — January 26, 2012 @ 1:51 pm
Nice. But there are 4.6m people in Ireland (6m on the island).
DailyCandor: Oops, dating myself. Didn’t factor in the explosive growth over the last couple of decades. Duly amended.
Comment by Fionn — January 27, 2012 @ 8:34 am
Czechisch little brother… :-/ I hope, that once we will be more known and connected with the “Tatra Tiger” symonym …
Thanks for response 🙂
Comment by Peter — January 29, 2012 @ 11:41 am
For all who knows nothing about us too, there is a short video made by our National Tourism portal (it means it is not objective view of whole reality, so you can also take it as a little advertising on my country 🙂
Comment by Peter — January 29, 2012 @ 11:56 am
Wow, this article is so true. Most of the teenagers (read: 98%) think most of this at my school. They think the U.K. is a floating kingdom in the Atlantic somewhere, French people hate us, Russians are drunk commies, Finland is Nokia, Germans are white supremacists, Italy is full of good food and the mafia, and have no clue what Portugal is – one girl even asked if it was the capital of Canada. (!?) They also seem to think South America is basically the South (“It’s, like, Texas, right?”) and the Caribbean is made up of Cuban smokers, broke Haitians with “big bootys”, and Jamacian druggies.
None of them can even tell you when we celebrate our independence, which is just sad. Sure, they know that D.C. isn’t in the state of Washington and on the east coast, but some genuinely think that Hawaiians still live in grass huts (I didn’t; I lived in apartments). Truth is, a lot of them are ignorant of their own country and can probably list just California, Nevada, Texas, Utah, and Alaska on a map. They think the land mass beneath “Mexico” (because Central America? “Totally Mexico, yeah?”) is Africa and the Middle East is somewhere in the middle of Asia. If you ask them, they’d have no clue what Scandinavia is (“It’s like, by the boot thing, I think.”) or where we’ve been sending our troops for the last few years.
And they’re supposed to be part of America’s smartest generation? They all too obsessed with how skinny you are, how good you looks, and having Jansport backpacks to match all of their fifty pairs of Converse sneakers. I’m sorry if this offends you, but this is my honest opinion, and the kids at my school? They haven’t been proving me wrong yet.
Comment by Jess — February 1, 2012 @ 12:17 am
As an American, I have a few remarks of my own to make. Warning: I am NOT one of those obsequious American ex-pats who feel obliged to apologize to all Europeans because we are the superpower AKA World Policeman. Indeed, I highly resent the way this dubious honor got foisted on us thanks to Europeans’ endless grudge matches that dragged us not into one but two World Wars. To paraphrase and elaborate on Michelle Obama’s remarks; I am neither proud of nor ashamed of my country; I love my country. It’s my country. Kindly respect that.
IMO, the European Motto should be “Never Forgive, Never Forget, Never Learn.” An insult offered to you eight hundred years ago pisses you off more than the one offered eight minutes ago, because you’ve had centuries to stew over it. For people who take such great pride in your knowledge about geography and history, you never learn a damned thing from it, except to contrive to fin new ways to kill each other and as many Americans that you can drag into your squabbles as you can (see WWI and WWII). Resent us all you want, but if we weren’t stuck over there babysitting your silly behinds, you would have wiped each other out by now … over the most miniscule, ridiculous differences imaginable.
To understand why we Americans seem so self-centered, GOOGLE Ron Paul and LISTEN to the thunderous applause and cheers every time he rants against American interventionism, saying “we wouldn’t have these ridiculous deficits, endless wars, destructive blowback ad nauseum ad infinitum if we just mind our own business.” Americans are not interested in empire; we got stuck with it. Americans are isolationist at heart, starting from when George Washington advised the country NOT to embroil themselves in the internal affairs of other countries or any entangling alliances.
READ our Bill of Rights. Familiarize yourselves with our Constitution. Never mind that our corrupt, power-hungry, globalist politicians have wiped their asses with it. Just remember any real, law-abiding American wants to do is live his life with a minimum of outside intrusion and, guess what? He has no problem whatsoever if you want to do the same! The American motto is best defined as “Live and let live.” Our “ignorance” about your history, geography, etc. ad nauseum ad infinitum is NOT based in stupidity, but on a deliberate strategy of hoping against hope that you will fix your own problems and stop looking to US to bail you out of the messes you make.
I do not see why I have to concern myself over what happens in every country of Europe anymore than I see why you have to concern yourself over what happen in every state of these United States. And in my opinion, anyone in Europe who gets their panties in a twist because I do not know nor do I care what happens in their back yard is an attention whore who desperately needs to get a life.
That said, my biggest wish is that the EU turned out to be something more than some ingenious new way Europeans contrived to make everybody’s life over there as miserable as possible. As an American of European descent, I was hoping that Europeans could unite as continental Europeans and all bring their diverse talents to the table to do every European proper. I was hoping they could retain pride in their national heritage while setting aside their national chauvinism and celebrate each other as non-Irish Americans can celebrate St. Patrick’s Day and non-Italian Americans can celebrate Columbus Day. In America, we all liked to be annoyed by New Yorkers, but when New York was attacked on 9-11, there wasn’t a state that didn’t pull with the New Yorkers in their time of need. Europe could be such a great place if the French, the British, the Germans, etc could take pride in and celebrate each other’s accomplishments and comfort each other in their tragedies.
In conclusion, all I have to say is that thanks to your treacherous politicians any Pole who can remain pissed at the Germans who remain pissed at the French, etc., are going to find out that they are feuding in a burning house with your ridiculous policy on immigration causing all of North Africa, Pakistan, and the Middle East to invade your continent. Kindly peel your fingers off of each other’s throats, smell the smoke, and clean up your acts before it’s too late!
Comment by Michelle — February 13, 2012 @ 1:13 pm
[…] to the Dailycandor, Americans have something of a limited but friendly view of Germans that I would have to agree with. Unfortunately, we don’t really know a lot about Germany or […]
Pingback by My Friends and Neighbors… « living the american dream in europe — February 23, 2012 @ 9:51 am
As an American who has lived in various European countries for close to four years now, I’m amused by both this and your European stereotypes post. And because three of those four years have been spent in Austria, I have some input on what Americans think of Austria: their first reaction is generally “Oh, Australia!”
Then when I inform them that no, Austria is in Europe and they speak German, everyone thinks it’s a part of Germany (several of my relatives remain convinced that I live in Germany).
The best way to get the average American to recognize that Austria is, in fact, a country, is to mention The Sound of Music, a film that most Austrians have never even heard of. Unfortunately, this just makes Americans think of Nazis (although there is some truth to that, because Austrians are astoundingly racist).
And an addition to the European stereotypes: Austrians hate Germans. They think they’re stiff and stupid and really annoying, and they especially hate that the rest of the world thinks they’re German. They do, however, love German tourist money. Oh, and Bavarians are okay. They’re most Austrian than German anyway.
As for knowledge of geography, I’ll admit that many Americans are woefully ignorant (see: my relatives who think I live in Germany). I tell everyone I know to address letters to me with AUSTRIA, EUROPE to prevent it being sent to Australia, which happens fairly often. But I definitely learned geography in school. I had to learn the locations and capitals of all 50 states in elementary school, and then the locations and capitals of every country in the world in middle school. I don’t remember them all exactly, but I do have a general idea where most things are. And my Austrian students are fairly lacking in geographical skills. The most common answer I get when I ask where Minnesota (my home state) is: “In Texas!” Most of them can’t name the capital of Canada (not that Americans can either), a shocking number seem to think that Africa is a country, and a friend of mine had a class tell her that Japan was next to Australia. I’ve had students tell me outright that they don’t care about anything that happens outside of Austria.
On another geographical note, I find that Europeans generally have no concept of just how large the US is. I had some of my classes plan road trips last year, and limited them to 8 hours of driving a day. At first, most of them laughed at the limit, but then they realized that they couldn’t just drive from New York to Miami to LA in a couple of hours. It was amusing to watch them try and figure out how to get everywhere they wanted to go!
And I disagree with some posters that it’s unfair to compare Americans’ knowledge of states with Europeans’ knowledge of countries. Our country is bigger than their continent, and more directly affects our everyday lives. American states are much more independent and diverse than a lot of people realize. In many ways, the US and the EU are comparable, with the states then being comparable to European countries. My state might have 2 million fewer people than Austria, but it’s three times bigger and far more autonomous than, for example, Vorarlberg. I’d say that in general (with a few notable exceptions), provinces within European countries are more like a cross between a county and a political district in the US. People naturally pay more attention to things that are close to them, because that’s what affects them. For Americans, what’s close just tends to be our own country.
Comment by Leah — February 26, 2012 @ 3:29 pm
Hello, I’m Ace.
I know that the section on my countrymen (Filipinos) is really small but I’d like to dispute that stereotype.
I think that the Filipinos you think of are the ones with Spanish blood (Mestizos). Some of the old, rich families here prefer Spain. But the average Filipino doesn’t care about Spain. We neither love them nor hate them. The average Filipino does not care much to beyond “they colonized us for 333 years”.
But most of the lower and middle class really like the US. To them going abroad means going to America, and you are considered privileged/lucky to go there.
Comment by Amihan — February 28, 2012 @ 7:05 am
Where are these mythical Americans who think New York is the nation’s capital, that the Netherlands are the home of Tinkerbell, and that Portugal is part of Puerto Rico? I hear about these people, but I can safely say I’ve never met one. Going by these sorts of statistics, we’re all too dumb to live. It’s a wonder these “average Americans” don’t sometimes forget how to breathe and pass out.
Comment by Jim S. — April 5, 2012 @ 11:08 pm
There is some truth to this article but stating that most Americans associate Spaniards with Mexicans and assume the country is poor, etc. has got to be one the most ridiculous and ignorant statements I’ve ever read.
Comment by Michelle — April 8, 2012 @ 6:07 pm
Thank you eversomuch for perpetuating a stereotype. Please note my sarcasm. When I went to Europe to study in the mid ’70s Italians, French, Germans, always seemed to think that ” America” consisted of New York, and Chicago. Give me a break . . .
Comment by Marianne Head — April 12, 2012 @ 8:59 pm
“Europeans who always remember that China had the Tiananmen Square massacre, a Serb killed Archduke Ferdinand and Serbia gave the world Slobodan Milosevic, etc.”
Well Europeans can remember that Serb killed Archduke Ferdinand who was archduke of Empire that wanted to conquer Europe and Serbia with that murder of archudke started WW1 and win first battle on ally side, same side where were England, France, Russia and USA…..
You still have to learn about history of Europe and i have to learn English because i am well aware that i made too much grammar mistakes in this post… 🙂
Comment by Konstantin — April 13, 2012 @ 3:42 pm
Here is another Fact most Irish do not like Americans we find them really annoying full of Bullshit and loud. We laugh at Irish Americans and the way they go on and on about Ireland and how they percieve us and their heritage… most Americans also love to believe we dont like the British but in fact most of us Irish do like the Brits and would prefer British people any day over Americans…My Brother lives in American and when we visit i think most Americans would be surprised as to what we say about them behind their backs….
DailyCandor: Not an Irish-American myself, but we do tend to know how two-faced some of the residents of the British Isles can be, so no worries.
Comment by JAMES SMITH — April 13, 2012 @ 5:10 pm
LOL. I think contemporary Filipinos are more of to idolize Americans more than any other nationality. Aside from that, they tend to be branded (cuz many of them really are) as Caucasianophiles or Westernophiles. Many Filipinos LIKE mostly everything White or Western which makes them very alienated from the rest of the Asians
Comment by pansitkanton — April 15, 2012 @ 10:49 am
… “Beyond that, the only perception of Germany is beer, sausage, sauerkraut and Oktoberfest. And maybe lederhosen.” D: It seems that the whole world thinks Bavaria is Germany…. it’s somehow sad really, but on the other side it’s amusing!
Comment by Nut — April 27, 2012 @ 5:33 am
Agreed on Germany XD but they’ve been complaining about that forever. America has the same problem, everyone thinks Texas is America….Texas certainly thinks it is!
..Dunno about that Spain entry, I always thought Spain looked like Old California from Zorro movies except with nicer buildings and modern dress. And their old Dons had castles.
I tend to think geography is useless for most Americans…What is the point, when you only have enough money to go out to dinner twice a month? And why SHOULD a foreigner know where Milwaukee is? Only someone rabidly self-centered would consider that necessary.
There’s no excuse for not researching your destination if you do go, but most countries are so old…There’s ridiculous amounts of things to trip you up that only people who visit regularly would know.
And that’s another thing to blame on the financial crisis! The fact that I KNOW about the French election and am now worried about the abysmal field of candidates! Seriously, France? Never in my life did I want to even think about French politics! GIVE ME BACK MY IGNORANCE! XP
Comment by Whygod — May 1, 2012 @ 8:35 pm
[…] I think it is important to get a few things out of the way. The following partial list is thanks to DailyCandor, because what they say is somewhat true, generally speaking of […]
Pingback by What we say, what we mean and what you hear… « living the american dream in europe — May 19, 2012 @ 10:43 am
Americans view Western Europeans as fake and snooty. Fake peace-talking negative whiny neo-imperialists who are envious of US power. Americans think Western Europeans view themselves as the first imperialists and therefore the center of the universe, but actually Americans think their countries are tiny and insignificant today. And its true. Americans see Western Europeans as preying on the developing world, aware of those countries, but feel superior and entitled. We think Western Europeans go to developing countries as backpackers or whatever to seek out the poor to be fanned by them and look down on them, to reinforce their own views of themselves as “still able to colonize”. Of course, there are a few good hearted Europeans and Americans who are genuinely there to help and view them as equals. This contrasts with everyday Americans, for the most part, are unaware or purposely not wanting to know of the developing countries and dont want to have to suffer what they go through, our concept is to “not ever go there”. As far as the US military though, unlike most American people, it has very imperialistic and colonial outlook and behavior, very Western European in character.
Comment by Jack — June 10, 2012 @ 9:20 pm
James Smith. Agree that a lot of us Irish don’t like Irish-Americans, and like to take the piss out of them, but think that has a lot to do with their funding the IRA (along with Colonel Ghadaffi) for decades. If that makes the editor think we’re “two-faced” so be it, but I wonder what their attitude would be if we held regular fundraisers for terrorists groups in their country?
Comment by Sinead — June 14, 2012 @ 6:30 pm
Well, I am a French lady who moved to the United States twenty years ago. I am married with an American, I have great American friends (all well-traveled and educated) a beautiful home, a good life, except…..that everybody around me speaks only English, and assume that because I have been here 20 years I am now American. Nobody cares or is curious about the “other me” who existed in France and other countries for forty years before to come here. And this other me that returns to Europe every year, for them it is vacation, as they do, when I say I go home, their face goes blank.
I love the convenience of the American lifestyle, the beautiful nature, the vast spaces and Americans in general are generous people. Other qualities? hard working, sometimes too hard, most often honest, more than the French, open and direct, sometimes too direct right in your face without any preamble.
Things that I am not too excited about or miss? American traits seen from an insider European perspective? Generalities are unfair, but here is what i have to say:
– Lack of humor. I lived in Great Britain, and I love British humor. Americans do not have a great sense of humor, they don’t play with words, and they confuse humorous and crude.
– People considered as “upper-class” and living in multi-million dollars houses being so ill-cultured, ignorant, ill-mannered and so low class. And if you have all these millions to built a custom home, can you please make it esthetic? No, bigger is NOT automatically better… and do you really need a six car garage? Oh, and the Japanese bridge does not really fit withe the faux plastic French statues and the wannabe Spanish courtyard….
– The U.S. suffers from a fundamental deficiency: E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N. Including how to think, to analyze, to synthesize, to criticize, all exercises of the mind that I was taught in public high school growing up in France. I am thankful for it today.
– What really bugs me are Americans who have never left their country and are emitting opinions and comments about Europeans. And the one that bugs me the most is “the French are coward because they could not defend themselves during WWII and we had to go to rescue them”. These people have absolutely no clue of what is it is to be relentlessly bombed until nothing is left standing, to be occupied, to be denounced, deported, to live without food, water, electricity and a roof, to have all industries taken over by enemy, and above all, to be rendered powerless and humiliated.
– When I am returning to France, and in Europe in general, I find myself defending Americans against the French critics. During the Bush area, it was really difficult. I had to admit that half of the country was grossly ignorant and uneducated. The proof was in the pudding. Just by listening to Bush speaking his native language on TV, Europeans knew that if the guy at the White House had such a low level of English, that may be the rest of the country was not going to be too brilliant.
– America, the biggest, the strongest, the best…tarattatta!!! Have you ever lived in another country so you can compare?
– I was asked, after returning from vacation in a Southern France small village, if we had electricity….
– Because I am fit and thin, and at a normal weight, I am told I am skinny. It gets old. Now if I was telling you you are fat, would you like it? Better not starting, I would say it all day long….
– American customer service! you don’t’ think it’s the best? Try the French’s!
All together, it is a good country, a good people. Give them better education, turn off the TV, give them real medical care, better food, and 5 weeks vacations so they have time to read, travel and have a life, and may be, God forbid (still don’t’ understand why He is everywhere that One) they will start to think, deeper and deeper…but that would be too dangerous…
Comment by Marianne D> — July 3, 2012 @ 8:56 pm
I’m thirteen years old, and I live in United States.
I’m only THIRTEEN, and I know a lot more about European culture than this author seems to think an American can possibly know! I have traveled twice to Europe for a church mission trip, and I’m proud to say that I never had any of these biased ideals about Europe. Most Americans are not really that self centered!
Comment by Samantha — July 4, 2012 @ 1:49 am
I am a naturalized American. I was born in France and I love Americans and America even if they seem to not be educated in some areas.
Let’s be fair. Americans are not the only ones who do not know where things are. I have to admit as a Frenchman, that most of my life in France, I did not care about geography about France. I did not know that Marseille was in the South of France and I was surprised that someone from France thought that New Zealand was somewhere in Africa.
I think that Americans admit more their ignorance but I do not think that they are more ignorant. Because of the philosophy of Jean Jacques Rousseau the French philosopher, America during the 1960s adopted the education approach to teach their students the subjects they like. So when Americans know a subject they are good at it.
In Europe, by tradition, we were asked to learn all things. Not everybody remembers it but they were exposed to it. Even though Americans were less exposed to all learnings in recent times as Europeans, they are now catching up.
I do not feel like an island unto myself when I am around Americans and listen to what they have to say. I do not remember my head falling everytime an American-born citizen talks to me. They are actually more knowledgeable than people think.
I would not go back to arrogant France where they think they do everything better. First they do not do everything better, they just think they do and that is it. Long Live America for all its strengths and weaknesses because America is still a city on a hill
Bertrand Feuvray
Comment by Bertrand Feuvray — July 9, 2012 @ 2:36 pm
Have to add another good word for the Americans (of which I am one): it’s usually the ignorant fringe who get the most air-time, at least with our media. I think most Americans like to watch other people make idiots of themselves on TV. The writer of this article seems to think the Miss American pageant girl who didn’t know where the Middle East was is the best representative of her country, which (no duh) she’s not. It’s silly to lump 311,000,000 people together like that. Most people I know are very smart, and very not-on-TV. Some of the smartest people I know are not even on the internet. Shocker.
Comment by Bon Ann — August 10, 2012 @ 6:48 am
Americans are brilliant with tech. And at least they know how to bathe; canadians (esp the quebecois) smell like rotten cheese.
Comment by Dutchy of Netherlands — August 14, 2012 @ 3:34 pm
I like what Dutchy of Netherlands said about Quebeccois smelling like rotten cheese. That is a good one. In France we laugh at their French. It sounds so ridiculous. They do not like English Canadians because of a power struggle but I think they like the French from France even less because we question their very existence–their French, etc.–and we say they are not French like us. I was not well received when I went there. I preferred to be in English Canada. Even my aunt felt the same. She preferred Ontario to Quebec. She was ignored all the way from France to Quebec while she was sitting next to a French Quebeccois during the flight. I am against them becoming independent. That would be like promoting ignorance.
Too bad that America did not make Canada American, Quebeccois would have been swallowed up so fast just like Louisiana. It does not make sense to have two countries as neighbors who speak the same language. That is why I think that Germany and Austria should be one country. It used to be one until Germany broke apart during the Middle Ages. After that they had a hard time to unite again.
Bertrand Feuvray
Comment by Bertrand Feuvray — September 15, 2012 @ 12:56 am