Follow-up: What Europeans Think of Each Other



I logged into my blog after two months of complete neglect to see over 400 comments awaiting moderation. I thought it was the usual spam crap until I started wading through the list. Not sure how this post made it on someone’s radar, but it seems to have spread virally, and I spent a good two hours reading through the over-300 comments added to it. It was thoroughly amusing.

My thoughts:

  1. There were a handful of people who didn’t hesitate to tell me that I was completely ignorant and was completely in the dark about Europeans. They were vastly outnumbered by those who agreed with me completely.
  2. I was amused by those who confirmed exactly those national stereotypes I had written about (the indignant Greek, the xenophobic Brit, the stupid Swede…ok, I’m joking about the last one)
  3. I really appreciated the insights about the Portuguese, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, ex-Yugoslavs, and others that I didn’t know enough about. (Truth be told, I’m part Croatian, and know a LOT about the ex-Yugoslavs, cak i govorim hrvatski, but at the end of the post I didn’t have the energy to go into it. Fortunately, “Serbo” was, for the most part, right – except for my family, who defy every possible Croatian stereotype, thankfully. He was only partially right about Serbs, but, being a Serb, of course he was.)
  4. Sorry – I always get “Nordic” and “Scandinavian” mixed up. So Finland is Nordic, but not Scandinavian. I’ll probably fuck it up again in the future. Fortunately, I don’t mix up Slovakia and Slovenia, though. That’s good because most Europeans do. (Add to that the eastern region of Croatia called “Slavonia” and you have a recipe for Europeans eating their words about American geographical ignorance.)
  5. I am aware that Spaniards are not Latin American. But when you hear a person speaking Spanish, even in Europe, it’s not all that unusual to find out that they’re, in fact, Latin American (the rich variety that moves to Mother Europe). They outnumber Spaniards about 9 to 1 worldwide. But if you dare ask a Spaniard if they’re from Colombia or Argentina, be prepared to wipe some venom from your eyes.
  6. The nationality that consistently told me I was wrong: POLES. Oh, the irony. I lived in Poland for 2 years (the other 2 years in Europe were spent in the Netherlands). I lived with two Polish families, in different parts of the countries. I speak Polish fluently. Alez Polacy….nawet MIESZKALEM w Polsce, to wiedze chyba wiecej o Wama niz to, co Wy wiecie o samym sobie. W odroznieniu od reszty nacji europejskich (oprocz Finow),  jestescie ciszymi introwertykami (nie ma w tym nic zlego!). A nigdy w ogole nie slyszalem ani jednego zartu o Niemcach…..ANI JEDNEGO! Takich zartow “Polak, Rusek i Niemiec” nigdy nie slyszalem.
  7. Times sure have changed. When I was living in Europe (the beginning of this decade) there was not nearly as much resentment against Poland. But then again that was before Poland joined the EU and Poles streamed out of the country to the west.

Because I’m multilingual, nonreligious, and not fat, I guess I didn’t fit any European stereotypes of Americans, which are much worse than the fanciful (positive) stereotypes Americans generally have about Europeans. I heard “But you’re not a typical American” all the time – which, I think, the usual American would embrace like a badge of honor, but which I felt vaguely insulted by (maybe I’m not typically American, then!). But, regardless, Europeans opened up to me and told me what was generally thought of other nationalities within their Union.

But, of course, these are mostly stereotypes, and very temporal in nature. And the intensity of feeling, of course, increases as you approach the border. Poles and Spaniards have nothing but good things to say each other, because they’re nowhere near each other. But talk to a Pole in Cieszyn and a Czech in Tesin (hint: it’s the same city, split in half), and you’ll suffer 3rd degree burns as each fulminates about the other.

There was a request about how Americans feel about each other. It’s not as nuanced, because our country is much younger, and Americans are far more mobile, but there are stereotypes and feelings. Many of them might not be any surprise to Europeans and others familiar with US geography; others might seem inconsequential.

Give me a day or two and I’ll publish something.

(A boyfriend of a friend of mine was Ghanaian, and worked in Ivory Coast, and told me all about Africans, back in 2002. I wish I could remember all he told me – that was a great listen)

Update: Looks like Metafilter picked it up. Thank you, goodnewsfortheinsane!

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22 Comments »

  1. Have you seen this? It’s a bit more vulgar than yours, but some of the ideas are the same. Having lived in the Netherlands as well, I can attest that the Dutch can definitely be “offensively tall” lol.

    http://www.exile.ru/transient/151/europeans-chart.html

    Comment by Istvan — July 18, 2008 @ 4:43 am

  2. Hey just a note to say I really enjoyed your What Europeans Think of Each Other blog, and found the observations to be dead on! I didn’t read the comments but can imagine what they were like, it’s a sensitive subject! I think when you’re from one of these cultures it’s harder to step back and see the bigger picture, and I’ve found that foreigners in Europe (like ourselves) are able to do this with a bit more ease. But if you asked me to compare regions of the United States, my description would certainly be coloured and distorted by my attachment to the Northeast. Outsider observations are often the most accurate, I find.

    Comment by Dave — August 12, 2008 @ 2:01 am

  3. I loved this and the original post. My sort of humor.
    I am Austrian but since i am quite cosmopolitical i don’t give much to it. But something bugs me… who told you that stuff about the Balkans?

    Something to add: We have kind of a hate-love relationship with the Dutch. They boost our camping tourism but slow down our overall traffic
    And we don’t like the germans, and we feel kinship with them for not liking us too.

    Comment by Chaki — October 27, 2008 @ 12:02 pm

  4. So, the final conclusion would be that, no matter where you travel, there are close minded morons everywhere? I can stay in stupid, lazy, troubled latin america to figure that out.
    Congratulations on your “enriched” vision of the world after all those years of traveling.

    Comment by Petronilo — November 1, 2008 @ 12:19 pm

  5. Swedes tend to dislike Russians for being aggressive and communist and poles for being thief’s.
    some swedes also dislike Norweigans and other tend to like them very much!

    Comment by Johan — January 2, 2009 @ 5:11 am

  6. I was wondering about how people see each other when talking about different parts of the USA. I have lived in California, Colorado and Kansas (then back to Cali). And I can say that there is a stereotype for each state that would be interesting to analyze. I know nothing of the South/South East or the East coast and would love to know the stereotypes they see.

    Comment by Suzi Roo — January 20, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

  7. [...] numerous interactions with Europeans, having lived there for 4 years. Here’s a run down: {Via} {More} {More} and {More [...]

    Pingback by It isnt “a load of crap” its ‘clever’ and what makes a lot of people ‘laugh’. « Funny Emails — July 27, 2009 @ 8:32 am

  8. I’m Dutch, but a special kind … the black kind.
    So, traveling around Europe I often get mistaken firstly for an American, then for English, then French, and when I say I’m from Amsterdam I immediately get asked for pot AND coke … ;)

    Okay, being black, I can say that nearly all Europeans are racists but in some countries you tend to notice it more, Eastern Germany being the most scary place I went to. I really got stared at, and sometimes I had the urge to run. Oddly enough (or perhaps not) Western Germans are generally friendly towards blacks, it’s the best country to hitchhike While Black! I guess they reserve most of their racial dislike for Turks. Greece, France, SPAIN! are not good countries if you’re black, unless you’re with other black people living there.

    Many people have told you you got it wrong on the Portugese which I confirm. Norway was one of the first countries with a large racist party (ooops, sorry the PC term is “anti-immigration” party) a reaction to ‘many’ Bangladeshi emigrating to Norway. So I guess that is the source of your Norwegians are racists.
    Finland is considered as different by the other Scandinavian countries, which is anecdotally demonstrated by the fact that they have their own aircraft carier Finair, they’re not in SAS.

    When I was a kid I disliked the Germans (mainly because of the football) and liked the French and English. When I started traveling on my own, and got my own I have found that Germans are the best European citizens, and not really arrogant, and that French are more arrogant and the most arrogant ones are the English. The euro hatred among white English is palpable, among blacks and asians not so much, in London at least where I lived.

    I’ve never encountered a Londoner who tried to speak anything but English, but in Paris I’ve met loads of Parisians who wanna help you find your way about town in charming English with a French accent.

    Italians are regarded as fascist, corrupt and maffiosi by the Dutch and sexcrazed maniacs towards blond women. In my experience, even plain dutch girls get lots of attention there if they’re blond.
    And the Dutch in general like every country north of them, and Britain. Having lost Billions in some Icelandic bank scandal, made them feel chilly about Iceland, but before when any body said Iceland we (like the rest of the world) we thought: Bjork! Geisers! Volcanoes!
    I guess we do seem to complain a lot, especially about all things Dutch but we extend that courtesy towards others just as easily.

    I got here via metafilter.

    Comment by Bij Lobith komt de Rijn Ons Land — August 6, 2009 @ 3:33 am

  9. In response to the post above, I disagree that France and Spain are bad if you’re black. I’m a black American and I lived in France for 9 months. Race relations were exponentially better there than here in America. I visited Spain for a weekend and had a blast! I also visited Amsterdam twice. Europe was amazing! It was fun reading this article too! I found the parts of it that I’ve actually experienced to be true.

    This is true especially about the Dutch. The few Dutch people I ran into were know it alls and blunt. One was blunt to the point of being rude!

    I heard that the French didn’t like Africans but I never saw this. It was someone older that told me this. Could be among the older crowd (45+). I don’t know. But everyone was fascinated by me. It was great :-)

    I spent days in Paris with an Italian. He was a great lover! It was beautiful =)

    About the French, they seem to be a very proud people; proud of their country and culture. This is particularly among, again, the older crowd. I met a guy on the internet and spent a night with him in Paris and he took me down the Champs Elysee and was talking about all sorts of things about the city and country. That’s something I noticed about the French.

    Comment by Republique Francaise — January 22, 2010 @ 2:47 am

  10. Beeing Dutch I loved reading this blog and the posts. There is much truth in the observations. However, there are two things I would like to share:

    We Dutch are blunt, no doubt about that. However, we are as blunt to each other as we are to foreigners, so don’t feel offended. We just don’t know any better than that.

    When it comes to the Germans, it is my impression that the Dutch don’t dislike them as much as say 10 or 15 years ago. The very simple explanation is that there aren’t many Dutch left from the WWII generation. My late grandmother always referred to the Germans as “moffen” (krauts). Odly enough, she went on holiday to Germany alwmost every year…..

    Keep blogging!

    Comment by Jerry — March 4, 2010 @ 6:44 am

  11. Peachy! I got really entertained after my lunchbreak when I finished your blog. I’ve been living in Spain for 4 years now and travel a lot to Portugal also, but originally from Slovakia.
    Here is some input on the lesser known eauropeans.
    Slovaks – against all expectations we have friendly relationship to our czech brothers, just slightly competitive when it comes to sports. Hungarians are a different subject. We literally hate them for historical reasons and for the fight for Tokai wine region. Otherwise pretty neutral with the rest of europeans.
    Generally Slovaks are a bit invisible and adjustable for every condition. Nothing special, nothing bad. Kind of similar with Portuguese mentality.

    Comment by Kristina — April 21, 2010 @ 8:02 am

  12. You forgot to say that Austrians are hypocrites, i live there and i ignore them because of that.

    Comment by ottolenz — April 21, 2010 @ 10:38 pm

  13. I know you wrote this way back and are still getting comments, so here goes. Americans changed opinions about each other after 9/11. So we have two major epochs, like BC and AD, except I call it BN and AN (B4 9/11 and After 9/11). BN the way Americans saw each other was far less controversial than AN. AN, America was socio-emotionally divided into the very 7 regions the NAU (of the NWO) is reputed to have pre-planned for us. The Pacific NW is run by a secret god of the Martians, each July 4th they have annual love-in’s on large clean beaches where George Noory is dressed as a poodle and made to run around spreading memes of mass insanity. That’s how the Northern East Coast of America view them. OTOH, the Pacific Noory Memers view Northern East Coasters as being run by a group of invisible powerful European royalty, who have long had the tools of genetic enginnering applied to them, and may live forever, and so they are all-powerful and are going to make everyone slaves. They believe this knowledge came from UFO’s and are pissed the Northern East Coasters have it. The other four regions are the Middle and the South, divided into East and West. There’s not much thinking going on in those areas, just a lot of pork rinds, booze and underage sex. The only difference between the middle and the South is the averge US dollar value of personal hygience products purchased. That’s how the North, East or West views them. The Middle and the South of the US are constantly slammed with major natural calamities (hurricanes, oil spills, etc. ). However, these regions have become the laughing stock of the NorthEast and North West US because they have no clue these calamities are due either to UFO control of the planet (Western position) or due to the geo-stunts pulled by those shockingly old Purple (royal) people (Eastern US position), and so sort of deserve it (schadenfraude).

    Other than that, the US is psychologically as normal and as moral as everywhere else.

    Comment by AnnaBanana — July 14, 2010 @ 4:02 pm

  14. I did mean Schadenfreude with an ‘e’, although the accidental misspelling with the ‘a’ does hold literary possibilities.

    Comment by AnnaBanana — July 14, 2010 @ 4:08 pm

  15. I get your humour, I know it’s all just generalised statements but it’s still funny, and partly true.

    What I found especially funny is how many people, in trying to defend their country, conformed even more to their national stereotype. Especially Brits, reacting to the suggestion that Britain is a racist and xenophobic country by going on massive racist and xenophobic rants.

    What is always funny is that not only are people’s stereotypes often far from the truth, but also what countries think other countries think of them is often far from the truth.

    As a Brit I was brought up to think that the entire world hated us (except for a few Americans) and that as soon as you set food outside of the UK you will have a hard time as people shun and ignore you. This most definitely isn’t true, the countries where I expected to be hated the most actually quite liked us, i.e. Germany and France. But I think it adds to British xenophobia… lots of British people having a mistrust of anything outside of the UK because they’ve been brought up to believe that everyone else is burning with a deep hatred of all things British.

    The funny stereotypes are the ones that come totally out of leftfield, usually old ones that nobody actually believes but are funny nonetheless. I recently found out that a French stereotype of the British is that they slay virgins. That one really is totally random.

    Comment by Will McA — December 21, 2010 @ 8:28 am

  16. Was fun dissecting these cultural differences.
    How about the Belgians?

    http://meandmisterjones.com/blog/when-good-is-not-good-enough/

    Comment by Fanny — April 5, 2011 @ 1:24 pm

  17. So far in my European travels, I have found that everyone so far has been very friendly and helpful. I thought Parisians were friendly and curious about Americans. I usually spoke French first but they usually picked up on my accent and spoke back to me in English. I loved how one girl said her dream was to travel on Route 66. Italians seemed to be very flamboyant and like to draw attention to themselves. Being blonde (and half Norwegian), the men definately tended to stare at me very intently to an almost uncomfortable degree.
    s to what the U.S. is like, I would say above all, Americans value their freedoms, especially the center of the country . A man’s proudest achievement is owning his own home. The northeast tends to have a snobbish attitude towards anyone who doesn’t live on the east or west coast…viewing anyone in between as wasted space. Southerners have a very distinct class system…the rich are very rich, and the poor are very poor. There is a lot of distrust between the blacks and whites. The upper Midwest carries on its blue collar heritage. Its hard to tell the doctors from the factory worker because those that are wealthy drive the same cars as the middle class workers. They tend to be more practical however, and they love beer and brats. Its not uncommon to find all German, Polish or Norwegian communities that still celebrate their heritage. The upper Northwest tends to be a bit more progressive politically and environmentally and they love to tax EVERYTHING. They tend to be naturalists…one might call them hippies. The southwest still kind of lives up to its wild west history. You’ve got the ranchers, fiercely protective of their rights and lands. There is a lot of strife between the whites of the region and the large influx of Hispanic immigrants. California…well, that’s a story on its own. Los Angelas is very flamboyant, San Francisco is expensive and San Diego seems like it is part of another country. Then there is the bible belt, the south Midwest, were teenage pregnancy, poverty and stupid people abound. They are very traditional, go to church every week but somehow everyone is on their 2nd or 3rd marriage. However, I would say they are the most friendly and welcoming. If there is a natural disaster, they are the first to donate money or supplies and help with the cleanup.

    Comment by Melissa — June 28, 2011 @ 7:27 pm

  18. I find stuff like this really entertaining. I’m British and i think one of these main reasons losts of us would be upset about being called European, is because it’s such a hard concept for us to grasp, being so cut of from the mainlaind Europe (besides France, and you got those English-French stereotypes perfect by the way!) Not only this, but alot of us don’t speak any other language but our own. This really embarrasses me, so I’m trying to learn German.
    I agree with Will McA that alot of us Brits do distrust anything further than the UK, but I don’t really know of any particular hatred we have for anyone, besides the french, but we like to tease others based on stereotypes. Especially within ourselves, for example, people with welsh heritage where I come from get some stick about sex with sheep, and we naturally expect all Scotts to be agressive and have red hair. Again, pretty embarrassed that we’re considered to be very arrogant… We probably come across that way to tourists because outside of London we don’t get so many tourists from other countries so we don’t know how to receive them, lol.
    Oh, and it really annoys me but quite a few people I know dislike the poles because they apparently, Quote unquote, “come over here and steal all our jobs”

    Comment by Kathy — October 25, 2011 @ 10:38 am

  19. But there really are thousands of such jokes and they are told, it’s just not in the company of foreigners. I bet you haven’t heard much jokes about Blacks and Jews either — it’s people get hyperpolitical-correct when dealiing with foreigners. Except for Russian jokes I guess :) )

    https://www.google.com/search?q=%22polak%2C+niemiec%2C+rusek%22

    44 thousand results.

    Comment by szopen — November 21, 2011 @ 3:36 am

  20. Republique Francaise – your comments on being black in Europe. I think it depends how dark skinned you are.

    I’m British of Jamaican origin, and have experienced racism in Europe. However, my cousin who is mixed race, and although clearly mixed race, is light skinned (our Jamaican ancestry has some white in the mix), with hazel eyes, and has never experienced any racism, in Europe (travelled extensively), and doesn’t know what I’m on about. Growing up in a white rural area, in Wales, she did not experience racism. We think it’s because there were not many blacks in her area, and everybody wanted to be friends with the only mixed race girl and boy in school.

    She only experienced racism, for the first time in her life, when she visited America. In Europe, she is recorgnised as being at least half european, and doesn’t get the racism at all. In America, she’s black.

    Comment by Kate — November 24, 2011 @ 5:21 am

  21. Won’t anyone tell this idiot that he spelled half those sentences incorrectly?

    Honestly, this is pitiful…

    Comment by anonymous — January 23, 2012 @ 9:24 pm

  22. And what about the Icelandic population with their Zenophobia?

    Comment by Elsa — February 2, 2012 @ 9:22 am

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